- Súhbatymyzdy әueli ózinizden bastasaq. Býginge deyin qansha kitabynyz jaryq kórdi, qay taqyryptargha kóbirek qalam tartyp jýrsiz?
- Ángimeni bastamas búryn myna bir jaydyng basyn ashyp alghym keledi, men osy kýnge deyin ózimdi tolyqqandy aqyn retinde sanaghan emespin, ol ertengi uaqyttyng sharuasy.
Kitaptaryma keletin bolsaq, Almatyda anda-múnda shyghyp túratyn qúrama jinaqtardy eseptemegende "Qanymdaghy qasqyr iyisi" atty jeke kitabym byltyr ghana jaryq kórdi, kólemi 6 baspa tabaq. Onyng ózi Jazushylar odaghynyng Baylanys jәne Aqparat ministrligimen kelisimi arqyly Úlyqbek Esdәulet, Ghalym Jaylybay, Janarbek Áshimjan qatarly aghalardyng atsalysuymen "Jas tolqyn" seriyasy boyynsha shyqty. Jalpy, óz basym bir kitapty taqyrybyn ózgertip qayta-qayta shyghara beruge qarsymyn. Endi Alla qalasa keler kóktemge qaray Beyjindegi "Últtar" baspasynan "Kýz jaughan soqpaq" atty jana kitabym jaryq kórmek. Shýrshitter qolynda qalghan Úly dalagha degen qúrmetim men saghynyshym - kýz jaughan soqpaqtarda shashylyp jatyr...

- Súhbatymyzdy әueli ózinizden bastasaq. Býginge deyin qansha kitabynyz jaryq kórdi, qay taqyryptargha kóbirek qalam tartyp jýrsiz?
- Ángimeni bastamas búryn myna bir jaydyng basyn ashyp alghym keledi, men osy kýnge deyin ózimdi tolyqqandy aqyn retinde sanaghan emespin, ol ertengi uaqyttyng sharuasy.
Kitaptaryma keletin bolsaq, Almatyda anda-múnda shyghyp túratyn qúrama jinaqtardy eseptemegende "Qanymdaghy qasqyr iyisi" atty jeke kitabym byltyr ghana jaryq kórdi, kólemi 6 baspa tabaq. Onyng ózi Jazushylar odaghynyng Baylanys jәne Aqparat ministrligimen kelisimi arqyly Úlyqbek Esdәulet, Ghalym Jaylybay, Janarbek Áshimjan qatarly aghalardyng atsalysuymen "Jas tolqyn" seriyasy boyynsha shyqty. Jalpy, óz basym bir kitapty taqyrybyn ózgertip qayta-qayta shyghara beruge qarsymyn. Endi Alla qalasa keler kóktemge qaray Beyjindegi "Últtar" baspasynan "Kýz jaughan soqpaq" atty jana kitabym jaryq kórmek. Shýrshitter qolynda qalghan Úly dalagha degen qúrmetim men saghynyshym - kýz jaughan soqpaqtarda shashylyp jatyr...
Jazatyn taqyrybym, әriyne, Ejelgi Saq, Týrkiler dәuiri. Sol zamannyng quanyshy, qayghysy. Búl - osy dәuirden jazatyn taqyryp taba almaghandyghymnan emes, sonymnan ergen bir oqyrman bolsa soghan oshaqtan ary attasan-aq qúshaq ashatyn dalalyq minezdin, Bóri tektin, adamdyq ardyng súlbasyn bolsa da jýreginde beynelep beru. Soghan talpyndyru. Ádebiyetting mindeti - úrpaq tәrbiyeleu ekeni shyn bolsa, mening ústanghan múratym da osy. Árkim ózinde bardy jazady. Oqyrman izdep, jarnama jasap qaraterge týsken emespin. Kerek qylsa oqidy, kerek qylmasa Abay atam menzegendey "ishtegi zapyrandy azaytu" ghana.

- "Kýz jaughan soqpaq" tirkesin últtyq sózdik qorymyzdan búryn-sondy estimegen siyaqtymyn...
- Men de osy tirkesti izdep biraz kitaptar men arhivterdi, ghalamtordy aqtardym, keziktire almadym. Jәne bir ólenimde "Jap-jasyl jýrek kóktemge qúshtar, kesher me meni kýz jaughan soq-paq..." degen óleng joldary bar. Búl ólenim gazetter men internetke shyghuy múng eken, ólenine osy tirkesti kóptep qosatyn, tipti, tonyn ainaldyryp kitabyna taqyryp qylyp jibergender de tabyldy. Sosyn, renjigenning ornyna quandym, menen de sóz úrlaytyndardyng shyqqany - bosqa tyrashtanyp jýrmegenimning jemisi shyghar dedim.

- Sizdi ótken mamyr aiynda Bilim jәne Ghylym ministrligining ishindegi Memleket tarihy institutyna qyzmetke túrdy dep estigenbiz. Ile júmyssyz jýrgeninizdi estidik...
- Ol aitugha da túrmaytyn әngime. Dese de sóz reti keldi ghoy, ol jerdi bastabynda ózge damyghan elderdegi siyaqty memleket taghdyryna kýiinetin, últ tarihyn zerdeleytin qasiyetti oryn retinde sanagham. Sóitsem... 20 kýndey synaqta jýrdim, sosyn qabyldanatyn bolyp qújattarymdy ótkizdim. Sol aralyqta instituttyng bir jauaptysy shaqyryp aldy da, "Respublika tanityn myqty aqyn ekenimdi aityp" preziydent-ke arnap kólemdi poema jazuymdy tapsyrdy. Instituttyng basshysyn da qosa ketumdi eskertudi úmytpady... Sol sәtte aldymda eki jol túrdy, biri, poema jazyp saray aqyny atanu, ekinshisi, júmystan ketu. Men songhysyn erikti týrde tandadym.

- Qazir jas aqyndar arasynda jaghympazdanu, arnau óleng jazu beleng alyp ketti. Aqyndar ózining materialdyq qajettiligin qamtamasyz etu ýshin amalsyzdan osyghan baryp otyr ma, әlde qazaq poeziyasynyng aghymy solay ketip bara ma?
- Jalpy, jaghympazdyq bizding qoghamdy qúrt auruynday dendegen júqpaly indet ekeni barshagha ayan. "Ýlkenderding bir oilaghany bar shyghar" dep ózimizdi júbatsaq ta, endi kóktep ónip kele jatqan osy jastargha ne joryq degen oy mazalaydy. Poeziya - últ ruhynyn, adamzat sezimining asyl jauharynan qalanghan qasiyetti saray ghoy. Jaghympazdar, toghysharlar ol esik-ten syghalaugha qansha qúlshynghanymen olardy bәribir, tarih keyinge ysyryp tastaydy. Naghyz әdebiyetti qorqaqtar men jaghympazdar jasamaydy. Býgin taban jalap, kýshtining ayaghyndaghy las batpaqty sýrtken qalaqtay tilimen erteng minbege shyghyp alyp, "oybay, últym ýshin janym qúrban!" dep úrandap túrghanyn kóresiz. Qanday jiyirkenishti! Jyghylyp jatsa da jaghasynan aldyrmaytyn ózge namysty últtar ýshin búl týsine de kirmeytin jaghday. Al bizding elde, últyndy qorla, dinindi sat, dilindi tapta,bәrine jol ashyq. Biylikting tizginin ústaghan, jemqorlyqqa manda-yynan batqan, tipti, memleketin satyp jiberuge әzir "adam deneli, donyz jýrekti" basshylardyng tofliyin múrtynmen shótkile, eshkim betinnen qaqpaydy. "Jabayy demokratiya" aulasynda kóktep shyqqan sol paqyrlar, satqyndyqtyn, ekijýzdilikting búlaghynan susyndaghan bisharalar bizding sol poeziya dep atalatyn qasiyetti sarayymyzda erkinshe taltandap jýr. Jaghympazdargha eshqashan senim artugha bolmaydy. Olar auyz jýzinde "últym, elim" dep qúr kópirshigenimen kez kelgen uaqytta últyn oilanbay sata salady.
Biylik mәngilik emes. Býgingi jaghympazdardyng kýni de sol siyaqty uaqytsha. Erteng shynayy ghúmyr keshetin, adamdyq ar saltanat qúratyn bir tamasha kýnder keletinine bek senemin...

- Medali, orden, yaghni, belgili bir festivali-mýshәiralardyng laureattyq ataghynyng bylayghy ómirde mәlim dәrejede paydasy bolatyny belgili. Ol jayynda ne aitasyz?
- Búl súraghyna Shyghys Týrkistanda ghúmyr keshken qazaqtyng songhy bahadýri er Ospannyng kommunister jibergen medalidy laqtyryp jiberip: "Men tenge monshaqqa qyzyghyp, iyghyma últ-araq taghatyn (pagondy aityp otyr. Ú.B) qatyn emespin, mening baylyghym tauym men dalam!" - degen әigili sózin qaytalaghym keledi...

- Sizdi jastar arasynda asa últshyl dep baghalaushylar kóp. Búl "Adamzattyng bәrin sýi, bauyrym" degen qaghidagha qayshy emes pe?
- Abay atamnyng ol sózin mýlde bas-qa maghynada, Islamy túrghydan qarastyru kerek. Men Qazaq degen qara orman últym túrghanda tórt jarym million Alash úrpaghyn ashtyqpen qynaday qyryp, jerim men tauymdy donyz órisine ainaldyrghan, tilimdi qyrqyp, dinimdi joyghan orysty sýyim kerek pe? Týrkilerding bóribas tuy jelbiregen qasiyetti qart Altay men Ileni tartyp alyp, ózimizdi bostyryp jibergen qaraqúrt qytaydy sýyim kerek pe? Álde músylman elderin qangha bóktirip, jýz myndaghan jas pen kәrining kóz jasyna, nalasyna qalghan aghylshyn men evreydi sýyim kerek pe? Joq, bauyrym! Myndaghan jyldardan beri qanyma singen Bóri tegim, jastayymnan sanama ornyqqan Er Ospan ruhy búghan ólsem de jol bermeydi. Qazaq bolyp tuyldym, Qazaq bolyp ómir sýru - eng úly múratym!

- Qazaq poeziyasynyng tabaldyryghyn endi attap, óz stiylin qalyptastyryp kele jatqan jas aqyndardan kimderdi atar ediniz?
- Sonymyzdan ergen bir top jas shoghyrdyng ólenimen de, ómirimen de etene baylanystamyn. Tize bersek úshyna jetu qiyn. Bәlkim, men kezdespey, ólenin oqymay jýrgen jas talanttar de kóp shyghar. Astanalyq studentter Erkin Isaqan, Erbol Alshynbay, Esbol Núrahmet, Sayan Esjan, Úmtyl Zaryqqan, Qaraghandylyq Miras Asan, Quanysh Medeubay qatarly toptyng dauysy óktem, jýrisi myghym.
Sóz reti kelgende aita keteyin, bizding buynda sipaty júrt kózine elenbey, talanty baghalanbay, ózining de júrtqa tanylugha qúlqy soqpay eskerusiz jýrgen, "Túlpardyng tostaqtay kózinde, túnghiyq sher bolyp qaldym men" dep jyrlaghan bir tamasha aqyn bar. Ol - Yqylas Ojayúly. 2008 jyly "Jas tolqyn" seriyasymen shyqqan "Adyrna" degen jyr jinaghy osynyng dәleli. Ózgeshe Yqylastyq ekpinmen, asqaq fafospen, imany jýrekpen shynayy tolghaghan móldir jyrlary eriksiz moyyndatady. Búryn qolyma týspey jýrgen. Jaqynda izdep tauyp erekshe tolghanyspen oqyp shyqtym. Ol qalyptastyrghan stiliding júrnaghyn әldekimderding shatpaqtarynan kezdestire qalsanyz, әriyne, jýreginiz auyrady. Yqylassha tolghap, Yqylassha kýnirene alsa, jerine jetkize jazsa meyli der ediniz.
Otardaghy qoyshynyn, borandy kýzde tau saghalap, qar jamyla jaylaudan týsken kóshpeli qazaqtyng taghdyryn jyryna arqau etip, ózi tasada jýrgen taghy bir lirik Ahat Rasuldyng da kýnderding kýninde qúm astynan altynday jar-qyraytynyna senemin.
Ýlkenderding "Ónerde júldyzyng jansyn!" dep nege bata beretinin osyndayda týsingendey bolasyz...

- Shygharmashylyq adamy, sonyng ishinde aqyndar ýshin eng qauipti minez qaysy dep oilaysyz?
- Shekten tys ózimshildik pen asqynghan ataqqúmarlyq jәne júlqynghan jaghympazdyq. Búnyng qaynar búlaghy teksizdikten bastau alady. Ol ýsheui meken tapqan jýrekte iman da, adamgershilik te, últqa degen mahabbat ta bolmaydy. Búl ýsh jaman minez nәjisten beter jaghymsyz iyi-simen manyndaghy adamdardyng bәrin bezdiredi. Qoghamda jiyir-kenish tudyrady. Meninshe, aqyn ataq ýshin tyrashtanbauy tiyis. Ólenining taghdyryn oilaghan kez kelgen talantty aqyn búndaygha әste jol bermeydi.

- Ángimenizge rahmet!

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