• Biyliktegi lobbiyler kimder?
• Halyqtyng  91 payyzy óz balalaryn qazaq mektebine beredi
• Qazaqstan endi ýsh jarym, tórt jylda Reseyding yqpalynan tolyq shyghyp ketuge mýmkindigi bar
• EAEO ekonomikalyq odaq emes, sayasy odaq
• Daghdarystan shyghudyng jalghyz joly – reforma

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Ýkimet pen búqarany  alys-jaqyn aralyqta qanday manyzdy dýniyeler kýtip túr? Sayasy ringtegi Batys pen Resey aiqasy nemen ayaqtalady? Keleshegi kýngirttene bastaghan EAEO jәne Nazarbaev pen Putin dostyghy. Songhy ailarda oryn alghan auys-týiis pen sayasy daghdarystyng aqyry nemen ayaqtalady?  Osy súraqtardyng jauabyn bilgimiz kelip sayasattanushy, tarihshy Ázimbay Ghaliymen súhbattasqan edik.

-Ázimbay agha, Mәjilisting Almatydaghy otyrysyna óziniz qatystynyz (Keshe Mәjilisting kóshpeli otyrysy Almaty qalsynda ótken bolatyn). Jasyratyny joq, oiynyzdy ashyq aittynyz, ashy aittynyz. Degenmen, kóniliniz tolmaghan sekildi...

-Mening Parlamentte jýrgen azamattargha qarap qarnym ashatyn. Osy joly ózimiz qatysyp, isting barysyn kózben  kórgen son, oiymdy 2-3 payyzgha ózgertemin-au (kýldi). Shyndyghynda, Zang shygharushy organ ókilderining Astanadaghy aq tamnyng ishinde tyghylyp otyrghanynan góri, osy formatta júmys isteui qúptarlyq is dep oilaymyn. Qanday da bir Zang jobasyn qabyldar aldynda sol salanyng mamandarymen, tәuelsiz sarapshylarmen kelise otyryp talqylau ónimdi bolmaq. Búl jәne az da bolsa demokratiyalylyqtyng kórinisi ghoy. Ne desek te seng qozghaldy.

-Siz bir sózinizde aitqan ediniz, bizding biylikti lobbiyler basyp alghan dep. Býgingi toptyng da ishinde lobbiyler boldy ghoy?

-Men osyghan deyin aityp kelgenimdey, bizding biylikte lobbiyler kóp. Orys tilinin, orys últynyng mýddesine jyghylghan, sonyng soyylyn soghatyn, soghan jan-tәnimen berilgen azamattar kóp. Al býgingi jiynnan son, mynaghan kózim jetti. Bizde tek orys mýddesining lobbiyleri emes, ózge iydeologiyanyng lobbiyleri bar eken. Mysaly, osy jolghy jiyn tek qazaq tilinde ótti. Oghan janaghy Bekbolat pen Mayralardyng yqpaly bolghany sózsiz. Áytpese, ózge últ ókilderi de boldy ghoy. Al jiyn qazaq tilinde ótti. Astanadaghy jinalystardyng eshbirinen kem týsken joq, qyzu diskussiya boldy. Aliternativti pikirler de aittyq. Auzymyzdy eshkim japqan joq.

-Rasynda, Mәjilisting qazaq tilinde otyrys ótkizgenine tanyrqasyp, tanday qaghatyn  jaghdaygha jettik...

-Mysaly retinde aitayyn, Fransiyada arnayy «Fransuz tili akademiyasy» bar. Onda qansha jerden ózge últ ókili bolsang da, fransuz tilin bilmesen, memlekettik qyzmetke ornalasa almaysyn. Fransuz tilin bilmeytin sheneunik joq. Rasy, aghylshyn nemese basqa tilderdi parallelidi bilu erkine baylanysty. Janaghy «Fransuz tili» akademiyasy sheneunikterding memlekettik tildi biluin, fransuz tilinde sóileuin baqylap otyrady. Germaniyada da dәl solay.  Bizde she?

Statistikagha qarasanyz, Qazaqstan halqynyng 91 payyzy óz balalaryn qazaq mektebine beredi eken. 91 payyz degeniniz óte ýlken kórsetkish. Qalghan 9 payyzy ózge mektepterge balalaryn beretin kórinedi. Búl toghyz payyz orys mektepterining ýlesi dey almaymyz. Sebebi, ózge últ degende orystan bólek, úighyr, ózbek, kәrisi bar ghoy. Sonda proporsiyalyq basymdyq qazaq tilinde. Búl degeniniz halyqtyng qazaq tiline degen súranysy joghary degen sóz. Al biylik tizginin ústap otyrghan key lobbiyler múny bile túra ózge iydeologiya jýrgizip, әlektenip jatyr. Mysaly, Shymkent jaqta bir ózbek kәsipkeri auylgha qazaq mektebin ashyp beripti. Búghan qosa, ózbek, úighyr, qaraqalpaq sekildi birneshe etnikalyq toptar ókilderi qazir jappay qújattaryna deyin ózgertip, qazaq bolyp jatyr. Mynau Almaty oblysyndaghy Úighyr audanynda osydan 10 búryn qazaq-úighyr qaqtyghystary jii bolyp túrushy edi. Songhy 7-10 jylda toqtady. Sebebi, úighyr diasporasynyng aqsaqaldary da týsindi. Tipti, sheteldegi qandastardyng kóptep kelui kónil quantady. Derek retinde aitar boslam, sonau 34 jyly-aq, dýrbeleng basylghanda qazaqtar elge qaytyp kele bastaghan. Sodan jalghasqan kósh kýni býginge deyin toqtaghan joq. Ol toqtamauy tiyis. Bizge 1 millionday qandas keldi deydi. Negizi odan әldeqayda kóp. Keleshekte Memleket halqynyng keminde 90 payyzy qazaqtar bolady.

-Bayqaysyz ba, bizde Ýkimet pen halyqtyng parallelidi biylik jýiesi júmys jasap jatqan sekildi...

-Áriyne solay. Bizde biylik elitasy bir pozisiyany, isteblishment  bólek ústanymdy, al halyq mýlde basqa pozisiyany ústanady. Parallelidi biylik qúru degen osy. Halyqtyng qalauymen sanaspau, qúqyghyn janshyp taptau arqyly ózge iydeologiyany jýrgizu biylik pen halyq arasyn alshaqtatatyny zandylyq.

Men sizge aitayyn, 1916 jylghy kóterilis kezinde de Alashordashylar halyqqa «kóteriliske shyqpayyq» dep aitqan. Biraq, halyq shyqty. Qashanghy tarihty alyp qarasanyz da solay. Halyq eshqashan biylikke baghynyp, onyng degenimen jýrmeydi. Biylik tizginin ústaghandar sony týsinui kerek.

-Oghan geosayasy jaghdaylar mýmkindik bermeytin siyaqty ghoy...Sebebi, janaghy óziniz aitqan biylik lobbiyleri Resey mýddesine qyzmet etedi. Qazirgi biylik jýiesi EAEO pen Kedendik odaqqa kirdi. Sonyng yqpaly taghy bar...

-Qazaqstan endi 3,5-4 jylda Resey yqpalynan tolyq shyghyp ketu mýmkindigi bar. Sebebi, Reseyding qazirgi ekonomikalyq jaghdayy 2007 jylghymen salystyrghanda aitarlyqtay qúldyraghan. Batys pen AQSh sanksiyalary alynghan joq. Sonyng saldarynan Resey ónimderi EAEO aumaghyna ghana shygharylady. Sodan keyin, múnay men gaz qory azayghan. Eger ol qor tausylatyn bolsa, Reseyding ekonomikasy kýirep, halqynyng toz-tozy shaghady.

Esesine Putin әskery tehnika óndirisin kýshpen ústap túrdy. Tank jasau, qaru-jaraq óndiru salasyna aqshany ayamay qúidy. Osylaysha Resey ekonomikasynyng ózge sektorlary qoldausyz qaldy. Zauyttar men óndiris oshaqtary jabyldy. Ekonomikany saqtap qaludyng joly – әskery tehnika óndirisi emes ekenin tek 2015 jyly ghana úqty. Úqty da, әskery salany qarjylandyrudy azaytty. Sonyng saldarynan RF Jalpy ishki ónim kórsetkishi 2007 jylmen salystyrghanda 9 satygha tómendep, 12 oryngha týsti.

-Sanksiyalardyng salqyny bizge de tiyip otyr ghoy. Tipti,  EAEO naryghyna jóneltip otyrghan qazaqstandyq ónimder de RF aumaghyna kirgizilmey jatyr. Byltyr 80 mәshiyne jemis-jiydek shekarada túryp shirip ketti. Qazaqstannan jetkizilgen kókónister traktordyng astynda taptaldy. Tize berseng kóp qoy...

-Ras, Reseyding Batys elderine jasaghan qarsy sanksiyasyna Qazaqstan tauarlary da kirdi. Kýni býgin de biz alkogolidik ónimder men et ónimderin jónelte almay otyrmyz. Búl bir ghana oiynshynyng alany. Oghan daulasu mýmkin emes. EAEO ekonomikalyq odaq emes – sayasy odaq. EO-gha aliternativa retinde qúrylghan odaq. Al Reseyding jaghdayyna keler bolsaq, qazirding ózinde Resey halqynyng 21 milliongha juyghy ómir sýru dengeyinen tómen ómir sýrip jatyr. Aqsha joq. Onyng kiris kózi jabylghan. EO, AQSh, Qytay qaryzgha aqsha bermeydi. Demek, erteng 2 múnay qory tausylghanda toqsanynshy jyldar qayta ornaydy. KSRO-ny kýiretken Gorbachev nemese Elisin emes - orys halqy. Putin jýiesi de dәl solay kýireuding az-aq aldynda túr.

-Onyng ýstine Nazarbaev pen Putin arasy salqynday bastaghan sekildi. Nazarbaevtyng ózi inisiatory sanalatyn EAEO jiynyna barmay qaluy, oryna jana taghayyndalghan Baqytjan Saghyntaevty jiberui de kóp nәrseni anghartatyn sekildi.

-Ras, Núrekeng de jaghdaydy jaqsy bilip otyr. Sondyqtan da sayasy rokirovka jasady. Al Ýkimet basyna Saghyntaevtyng taghayyndaluynyng da óz sebebi bar. Saghyntaev memleketshil sayasatker. Saghyntaev qiqar minezdi adam.  Ol óz iydeologiyasy ýshin ayanbay talasa alady. Erevangha barghanda da dәl solay boldy. Pozisiyasyn qaytken kýnde de qorghap shyghady.  

-Resey men Qazaqstannyng ekonomikalyq әm Memlekettik qúrylymdary óte úqsas qoy. Qos odaqtyng kiseni taghy bar. Ertengi kýn Resey ekonomikasy daghdarysqa úshyraytyn bolsa, Qazaqstannyng daghdarysty ainalyp ótui neghaybyl?

-Resey qazir eki jerde soghysyp jatyr. Qúramynda 28 memleket bar Europalyq odaq teris ainaldy. AQSh pen onyng yqpalyndaghy Avstriya, Japoniya sekildi elder de Reseyden irgelerin aulaqtady. Qytay neytraldy pozisiyadan ainymaydy. Tipti, Qytaydyng da óz mýddesi bar. Olardyng kezinde Resey alghan jerlerining aumaghy edәuir ýlken aumaqty qamtidy. Birneshe Europa memleketteri syiyp ketedi desek te bolady. Sayyp kelgende, Qytay da Reseyding qúldyrauyna, tipti ydyrauyna da peyildi sekildi. Onyng ýstine 2018 jyly Reseyde Preziydent saylauy bolady. Halyqtyng Putinge senimi azayghan.

Al Qazaqstannyng jogharydaghy atalghan eldermen qarym-qatynasy jaqsy. Esh jerde soghysyp jatqan joq. Qazaqstan kópvektorly sayasat ústanugha tyrysyp baghuda. Áytkenmen, Reseyding әlsiregen túsyn útymdy paydalanu kerek. Jәne daghdarys bolady. Qazaqstan ony ainalyp ótpeydi, ras. Ol daghdarystan shyghudyng jalghyz joly – reforma. Qazaqstanda biylik qúrylymynda eng soghy ret reformany Qajygeldin jasady.

(jalghasy bar)

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