Dýisenbi, 6 Jeltoqsan 2021
Janalyqtar 2114 0 pikir 11 Nauryz, 2014 saghat 09:31

Rasul JÚMALY: QAZAQSTANNYNG AQPARAT KENISTIGI ÁLI KÝNGE DEYIN RESEYDING BAQYLAUYNDA QALYP OTYR

- Ukraina tónkerisi degen ne? Orys-ukrain qaqtyghysynan qazaq elining biyligi qanday sabaq aluy tiyis?

- Ukraina tónkerisi degen ne? Orys-ukrain qaqtyghysynan qazaq elining biyligi qanday sabaq aluy tiyis?

– Ukrainada songhy ýsh jarym aida bolghan oqighalardyng eng basty sabaghy – biylik basyna halyq keldi. Búghan deyin halyqty tonaghan, qyspaqqa alghan, onyng mýddesin Resey memleketining qyzmetine jýrgizgen biylikting ozbyrlyghyna shydamaghan halyq alangha shyghyp, aqyry óz degenine jetti. Ukrainadaghy jenis oppozisiyanyng da, Putinning qarsylastarynyng da jenisi emes, búl óz taghdyrymdy ózim sheshem degen, óz tәuelsizdigimdi ózim bayandy etemin degen namysty ukrain azamattarynyng jenisi. Áriyne, qan tógildi, beybit adamdar oqqa úshty. Búl bәrin de qynjyltady. Onyng qúnykeri de, jauapkeri de Yanukovich bastaghan jemqor basshylyq. Búl mәseleni beybit, órkeniyetti jolmen sheshuge bolar edi. Alayda, Yanukovich pen onyng qoltyghyna su býrikken Reseyding zymiyan sayasaty oghan bara alghan joq. Halyq jeniske jetkenimen, syrt kýshterding yqpalynyng nәtiyjesinde búl eldegi jaghday әli de auyr qalpynda qalyp otyr. Búl daghdarystan jaqyn arada shyghu-shyqpauy neghaybyl. Meninshe, týbinde Ukraina halqy tolyghymen jenip jeniske jetedi. Óz aimaghynan Reseyding әskerin quyp shyghady. Ózining últtyq, memlekettik, aumaqtyq tútastyghyn saqtap qalady. Órkeniyetti elderding qataryna qosylady. Al eng bastysy, Ukraina 1991 jyly Kenes Odaghy ydyraghanda formaldy týrde egemendigin jariyalasa da, naghyz tәuelsizdikke 2014 jyldyng aqpanynda ghana qol jetkize aldy dep sanaymyn. Ukrainanyng otarshyldyq qamytyn sypyryp, derbes óz baghytyn ústanghandyghy Reseydi «jyndandyryp» otyr. Putinning ozbyr әreketi, әskerin tәuelsiz elding aumaghyna engizui, qysym jasauy imperiyalyq, metropoliyalyq ústanymynyng nәtiyjesi dep bilemin. 
– Keybir azamattarymyz Ukrainadaghy jaghdaydyng Qazaqstangha esh qatysy joq deydi. Bizge búdan qanday qauip bar?
– Ukrainadaghy jaghdaydan bizge alar sabaq jeterlik. Onyng keybirine ghana toqtalsam, birinshisi: Minsiz memleket bolmaydy. Ózining ishki-syrtqy týitkilderi, qatelikteri, problemalary bolady. Osynyng bәrin sol elding Ýkimeti, Parlamenti der kezinde anyqtap otyratyn bolsa, kishigirim dýniyelerdi ushyqtyrmay sheship otyrsa, dәl osylay is nasyrgha shappas edi. Ukrainanyng ishki tolqulary ótken jyldyng qarasha aiynda bastalghan. Ereuilshilerding qoyghan talaby bireu ghana boldy – Europalyq odaqpen kelisimge qol qoy mәselesin algha tartty. Biraq olar «Yanukovich otstavkagha ketsin», «parlament qayta jasaqtalsyn», «kezekten tys Preziydent  saylauy ótsin», «Kedendik odaqtan bas tartayyq» degen talaptardy ol kezde qoyghan joq bolatyn. Alayda ereuilshilerding aitqanyna qúlaq qoidyng ornyna, Yanukovichting ne istegeni belgili. Qarsy kýsh qoldandy, týrmege japty, qudalady, repressiyalyq әreketterge bardy. Osynday әreketteri arqyly Yanukovich ukrain halqynyng basshysy emes, basshylyqqa kezdeysoq kelgen Reseyding jansyzy ekenin kórsetti. Alatyn sabaqtyng alghashqysy – osy. Yaghni, qarapayym jaghdaydan tuyndaghan problemany der kezinde sheship, qanshama qúdiretti bolsa da sheteldik kýshterding jeteginde emes, eng aldymen óz halqynyng mýddesin oilauda. Ekinshiden, Qazaqstannyng Reseymen qanday da bir integrasiyalyq úiymdargha, jobalargha qatysu mәselesi. Resey shyn mәninde imperiyalyq derjava ekenin kórsetip, betperdesin ashyp tyndy. Biz onymen jambas kórshimiz. Eki el arasynda dostyq, kórshilik, yntymaqtastyq baylanystar bolsyn. Biraq Reseyding әli kýnge deyin postkenestik elderding barlyghymen teng dәrejede, tiyimdi yntymaqtastyqqa dayyn emestigi qauip tughyzady. TMD elderi 23 jyl búryn irgesin aulaq salsa da, Resey olargha kishi ini retinde, jetegindegi bodandary retinde qaraytyn ozbyr niyetinen aryla almaghanyn anyq kórsetti. 
– Jirinovskiy, Limonov, Dugiyn, Prohanov sekildi impershilerding Qazaqstangha qarata qoqan-loqqy kórsetui siz aitqan qauipti terendete týsedi. Resmy Kremliding múny әdeyi aitqyzyp otyrghanyn barsha júrt andady. Ne isteuimiz kerek?
– Qazaqstannyng territoriyalyq tútastyghyna qauip tóndiretin Jirinovskiydin, Limonovtyng mәlimdemelerine Putinnin, Reseyding basqa da resmy oryndary men basshylarynyng kóz júma qarauy ýlken sekem tudyrady. Biz Reseydi kórshi, jaqyn mýddeles el dep otyrghanda, olardyng jasaghan әreketi mynau. Múnday óreskel mәlimdemelerdi tyiyp, Jirinovskiydi jauapqa tartudyng ornyna, olar ýnsiz qaldy. Múnday jaghdayda Reseymen  ortaq integrasiyalyq úiym ornatuymyz, onday úiymgha ózimizding egemendik  qúziretimizdi tapsyryp qong bizding últtyq mýddelerimizben qanshalyqty siysady? Meninshe, búl ýlken mәsele. Oilanarlyq jayt. Ásirese aldaghy mamyr aiynda Qazaqstannyng Euroaziyalyq odaqqa enui mәselesi kýn tәrtibinde túrghanda. Meninshe, Qazaqstan qanday da bir úiymdardyn, әsirese iri derjavalyq úiymdardyng qatysy bar integrasiyalyq úiymdardyng júmysynan bas tartuy bizding últtyq qauipsizdigimizdin, últtyq túraqtylyghymyzdyng birden bir kepili bolyp tabylady. Sodan keyingi bir mәsele, tәuelsizdikke qol jetkizdik dep jýrgen 23 jylda Qazaqstannyng aqparat kenistigi әli kýnge deyin Reseyding baqylauynda qalyp otyr. Yaghny Qazaqstan azamattary әlemde bolyp jatqan oqighalargha, tipti elimizding óz ishinde bolyp jatqan oqighalargha Resey sayasatynyng prizmasy arqyly qaraydy. Tipti Ukrainada bolyp jatqan oqighalardy bizding azamattarymyz óktem, shyndyqty jasyratyn, kóz boyaytyn aqparattar arqyly qabyldap otyr. Búl bizding últtyq, memlekettik qauipsizdigimizge ýlken qater tóndiretin nәrse. Kesh te bolsa halyqaralyq tәjiriybelerdi nysan ete otyryp, retteytin kýn keldi. Ózining últtyq, sayasi, aqparattyq qauipsizdigin oilaytyn el iydeologiyalyq qaruyn dәl bizdegidey basqa memleketke tapsyryp qoymaydy. Reseyding yqpalyn osylaysha meylinshe tómendetip, joqqa shygharu kerek. Eger Qazaqstan men Reseyding arasy salqynday týsetin bolsa, Putin men Medvedev aqparattyq qarudy  Qazaqstannyng biyligining ózine qarsy qoldanbasyna býginde eshkim de kepildik bere almaydy. Yaghni, Ukraina oqighasynyng Qazaqstangha da qatysy bar degen sóz. 
– Qyrym shiyelenisi  bitimgershilikpen sheshimin taba ala ma?
– Meninshe, Qyrym mәselesi – Ukrainanyng óz ishki isi. Búl Ukrainanyng aumaghy. Halyqaralyq zandargha sәikes, BÚÚ Jarghysyna sәikes múnday mәsele memleketting óz ishki isi bolyp tabylady. Memleketting ishki isine aralasugha qanday da bir derjavanyng esh haqy joq. Búl týitkilderdi sol jerdi meken etken ózge últtarmen kelise otyryp sheshe alatyn mýmkindigi bar. Mәsele bitimgershilikte emes, halyqaralyq zandylyqty búzyp, qyzyl shekaradan attap, elding ishki mәselesine aralasyp, egemen elge әsker kirgizip otyrghan Reseyding kýsh qúrylymyn el aumaghynan shygharyp әketui býkil әlem talap etip otyrghan nәrse. Búghan kóz júmyp otyra berse, Resey agressiyasy erteng basqa memleketti de bas salady. Búl HHI ghasyrdaghy halyqaralyq qatynasqa mýlde jat dýniye. 
– Ras pa, ótirik pe, bilmedik, songhy aqparattargha sensek, ukraindyq ekspattar Qazaqstandy tandap, júmys izdep jappay aghylyp kelip jatqan kórinedi. Enbek migrasiyasy sheshimin taba almay otyrghan Qazaqstangha búl jaghday qalay әser etpek?
– Óz basym múnday aqparattardy negizsiz әri qisynsyz dep bilemin. Iya, songhy tolqulardyng ekpini qatty boldy, Ukrainanyng әleumettik-ekonomikalyq jaghdayy kýrt nasharlady. Tipti oqigha bolmay túryp ta biraz jyl búryn Ukraina azamattary shetel asyp, júmys izdeuge mәjbýr boldy. Olar, negizinen, Resey men Shyghys Europany jaghalady. Qazaqstanda túratyn ukrain azamattary bolmasa, Ukrainanyng tól azamattary keng auqymda júmys izdep kelipti degendi osy kýnge deyin estimeppin. Al býgingi oqighalardyng nәtiyjesinde Qazaqstangha ukrainalyqtardyng aghylyp kelui yqtimal degenge óz basym onsha seninkiremeymin. Sebebi Qazaqstan týgili Ukraina azamattarynyng irgeles jatqan Polishagha, Belorusiyagha, Rumyniyagha bas saughalap baryp jatqany, lek-legimen júmys izdep ketkeni turaly derekti әzirge esh jerden kózim shalmady. Al shalghayda, qiys jatqan Qazaqstangha olardyng aghyla qoymasy anyq. Dәl osy enbek migrasiyasy, shetelden keletin gastarbayterler jәne olargha qatysty problemalardy sóz etetin bolsaq, tiyisti tәuekelderding arasynda Ukraina alghashqy ondyqqa da enbeydi. 
– Maydannyng bir kórinisinde Qazaqstannyng kók tuynyng jelbirep, barsha qazaqstandyqtardyng atynan sóilep túrghanday ray tanydyq. Búlar kimder?
– Olar últ patriottary, keybir qoghamdyq belsendiler. Olardyng reseylik jansyzdardan ereksheligi, betterin býrkemelegen joq. Qazaq azamattary ekendigin, bostandyq ansaghan ukraindyqtardy qoldaytyndyghyn jetkizdi. Múhtar Tayjan, Talghat Qaliyev siyaqty qogham belsendileri bardy. Tikeley isterine aralaspasa da, jemqorlyq jaylaghan totalitarlyq jýiege qarsy narazylyq mitingilerinde ukrainalyqtarmen bir ekendikterin bildirdi. Jeke ózim oghan ong kózben qaraymyn. 
– Federativtik Reseyding qúramynda 21 respublika bar eken. Sayasy sarapshylar Ukrainanyng ekige bólinu qaupining arghy jaghynda Reseyding ózining de birneshe bólikke bólinip ketu qaupi qosa tughanyn aituda. Tipti AQSh aldaghy jiyrma jyl ishinde Reseyding segizge bólinetini turaly boljamyn jasap ta qoyypty. Mýmkin be osy?
– 1990 jyldardyng sony men  2000 jyldyng basynda múnday әngimeler kóterildi. «Sayasat degen – mýmkindikterding sheberligi» degen sóz bar. Kezinde Kenes Odaghy degen quatty imperiya qúlaydy dep kim oilady? Biraq qúlady. Sondyqtan búl mәsele jekelegen memleketting jýrgizip otyrghan sayasatyna baylanysty. Sayasat sol aumaqta túryp jatqan halyqtardyn, últtardyng tatulyghyn, ózara dini, últtyq qarym-qatynasyn, әleumettik jaghdayyn, meylinshe әdil, meylinshe ashyq sheship otyratyn bolsa, әlgindey tәuekelder bolmaytyn da shyghar. Biraq Putinning býgingi әreketterine qaraghanda, amerikalyq, europalyq, keybir TMD-lyq sarapshylardyng boljamdary iske asuy әbden yqtimal. Sebebi orysshyl, shovinistik sayasat ústanyp otyrghanda, basqalay boljamnyng boluy da mýmkin emes. Býgingi tanda orys últyn ghana qoldaytyn shovinist skinhendterding basqa últ ókilderine qol júmsauy, olardy tonap, óltirui, kemsitui óte keng etek alghan. Reseyding iri qalalarynda aziyalyq azamattardyn, basqa nәsilderding ómir sýrui, kóshede jýrui qauipke ainaldy. Bәlkim, jogharydan tapsyrys ta bar shyghar, osynyng bәrine Reseyding qúqyq qorghau oryndary kóz júmyp qaraydy. Reseyding býgingi biyligi kezinde Kenes Odaghy nelikten ydyraghanynan әli sabaq almaghan siyaqty. Ydyraudyng kóptegen alghysharttary boldy, al eng bastysy, ortalyqtyng óz qúramyndaghy últtyq respublikalarmen esh sanaspauy, olardy orystandyru, assimilyasiyalau sayasaty sebep bolghan edi. Resey Federasiyasynda sol qatelik әli de jalghasuda. Sondyqtan qazirgi Mәskeu, býgingi Putin ýshin imperiyalyq sayasat sony ayanyshty ayaqtaluy әbden mýmkin. 
– Ángimenizge rahmet!
Ángimelesken–Aygýl AHANBAYQYZY.
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